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Satern Barrel vs AR Stoner

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  • Satern Barrel vs AR Stoner

    I now have a Satern .50 Beowulf stripped upper. The next obvious part to purchase is the barrel. After much careful consideration about the length, I have decided on 16 inches with a brake. In all of the searching on the internet, I can only really find an AR Stoner barrel or a Satern barrel.

    I know the essential differences between cut rifled and button rifled, but at the ranges the Beowulf is effective (200yds and under) and with the .500 caliber bullets currently available, is it worth the extra $155.00 - $200.00 for the Satern barrel? I guess that would be my main question. I am hoping that there are some Satern barrel owners out there that can weigh in with their experiences in owning a cut rifled barrel vs button rifled in this caliber. My gut says that with this cartridge and platform, the potential accuracy increase would not be so significant as to justify another $155.00 plus on it. If I am misguided and it is worth saving another month or two for the Satern, then so be it. Anyways, the help is appreciated.

    Griffin99

  • #2
    I have a stoner on a recent BW build. I bore scoped the barrel and it does have what appear to be drill marks in the lands. Most production barrels do. Doesn't mean it wont shoot. I have only funtion tested 50 rounds. Barrel Shows no signs of fouling. Even with rainer 334@ 1900. Weather has been cold here so I havent had chance to shoot bagged at 100 with 20x scope. There have been problems with stoner extractor not just mine but others. I was aware of this problem thanks to the forum. There are 2 pads on the back side of the extractor that need to be stoned down. This provides clearence when going into battery throught the locking lugs when the extractor is trying to ride over the rim of the case. Really not a big deal. Just took time to figure it out. I have heard others complain about sticky bolts and haveing to break in uppers This could be related ? Anyway gun worked flawlesly From the first round out. I don't own a saturn barrel but I do know steve and debby personally and he makes a true match grade barrel. No tool marks hand lapped. If you want real accuracy out of this gun @ 200 yards saturn would be a sure thing. That doesn't mean the stoner wont shoot. It really depends on what your looking for. And how long you want to wait. I am going out this weekend and shoot (bagged) @ 100 Maybe @ 200 if no wind.

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    • #3
      There would be no comparison between the Satern and Stoner barrel. The Satern is a top of the line match barrel, the Stoner falls into the E.R. Shaw quality family. That isn't to imply they are useless. I have an E.R. Shaw barrel in 260 Rem on a bolt rifle and it shoots quite well and doesn't foul.

      Lothar Walther makes a quality barrel in 50 Beowulf I suggest you give them a holler. I'd go with the Satern or LW if it were me.

      BTW the 50beowulf is a great candidate for shooting cast bullets. Don't believe any of the negatives you hear about cast bullets plugging the gas tube. That's all hogwash, beside if it did the gas tube is only like about $10-15 and very very easy to change. I think the Satern deep cut rifling would be really good with the cast too.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by starmetal View Post

        BTW the 50beowulf is a great candidate for shooting cast bullets. Don't believe any of the negatives you hear about cast bullets plugging the gas tube. That's all hogwash, beside if it did the gas tube is only like about $10-15 and very very easy to change. I think the Satern deep cut rifling would be really good with the cast too.
        Not to hijack the thread, but "my" main concern is not the lead plugging the gas tube, it's the lead vapors being blown back that close to my face and inhaling or ingesting it. Granted, I shoot a lot of cast lead bullets in handguns, but they are quite a bit farther away from my face when fired, and don't have a gas system blowing it back.

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        • #5
          Very good point

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          • #6
            Doesn't happen. This ties into the theory that hot powder gases melt the base of non gas checked bullets. Can't happen and I will tell you why. There isn't enough time. The bullet is out of the barrel in micro seconds. Think of this analogy. Light a candle. Run your finger through the candle flame fast. You may feel just a little heat. Now run your finger through the flame slow. You will get burnt. What can be true is gas cutting and especially if the bullet isn't fitted properly to the bore. Here's another internet myth. Casting bullets, that is having a melting pot or furnace going, puts lead vapors in the air. First vapors are a gaseous form of a material that has been heated past it's boiling point. We don't cast at that high of temperature. The melting point of lead is 622.4 degrees and it vaporizes above 3182 degrees. It's pretty hard to vaporize lead which the means that most of us melt it to cast with. Those are pure lead figures. When mixed with alloys it changes. Many wives complain of their husbands casting in the house and smelling lead fumes. They aren't smelling lead fumes, they are smelling the dirt and crud off a dirty alloy and the flux that person may be using. I'm not for one moment saying you should be casting without some sort of exhaust ventilation. After all one would now, say, burn oil in his home or basement.

            Next if you are getting any kind of leading or wash in your bore, you do not have you cast loading procedures correct. You either have an improper bullet fit, improper alloy, or bad lube....also maybe trying to push the bullet too fast.

            You have more to worry from the powder gas fumes then any concern over nonexistent lead vapors. The reason lead bullets were banned from indoor shooting wasn't from the nonexistent vaporization of the lead bullet during firing, but because when the bullets hit the backstop and fragmentate they eventually get ground down to a fine lead powder or dust if you will, that can fill the air in the indoor shooting area. That along with primers that contain lead are the real reason. Now the primers do put the lead directly in the air.

            Most the guys I know that cast extensively get an annual blood lead level test and most often it comes out normal. It's the people that handle lead that have bad hygiene habits that get high levels of lead. You have to either breath in fine lead dust or ingest it. It's the ingestion that is the main problem. Handle lead, get the tell tell gray on your fingers, then you eat something using your fingers.
            Last edited by starmetal; 12-19-2010, 14:20.

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            • #7
              I just tried your candle experiment. Damnit. Burned my finger really bad. Thanks. :-)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Curlymaple42 View Post
                I just tried your candle experiment. Damnit. Burned my finger really bad. Thanks. :-)
                bwahahahahahahahahaha......I bet your pants are on fire.

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                • #9
                  I guess vapor was a poor choice of words, but I'm not the most articulate creature at 3am...

                  I wasn't thinking that the base of the bullet melting, I was thinking of the bullet sliding by the gas port and shaving off particles of lead and then having the gas from the propellant blowing the lead particles back. I guess I should buy 100 or so and try it. If I don't see any signs of lead on the bolt or the carrier group, my mind would be eased.

                  :D

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                  • #10
                    Lazerbait,

                    Nothing wrong with your thinking. One just has to get down to the mechanics of things to understand them and to sort out the truth from internet fiction.

                    You're shaving off lead at the gas port is a very viable one. If the port does have some protruding or rough edges that can happen. As far as the bases they are protected with the gas check design. I've even fired rounds with filler in them and never have found any of the filler in the gas system. Now I can tell you that shooting cast require bullet lube and I do find what I call a greasy carbon in my carrier cylinder area where you normally get that dry dull carbon build up from jacketed ammo. Know what? It's easier to clean out then the jacketed dry carbon which is know that be troublesome to clean out. I've fired a lot of cast from several AR 15's in various calibers and don't really find them much more dirtier then when using jacketed. That's not saying they are cleaner, but they were cleaner then I would have suspected.

                    It's best to start with a proper alloy, and you can hard lead alloys quite hard, a good lube, and low velocity loads for a better chance of success.

                    If you need help just contact me and I'll be glad to assist you.

                    Joe

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                    • #11
                      Temporary hijack!

                      Did you see Mythbusters and melted lead. They wet their fingers and hand and very quickly submerged them into the liqufied lead and lo and behold no burns.

                      Hijack over! Thanks.

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                      • #12
                        I agree with Starmetal.

                        I have been shooting all different flavors of cast, all up and down the BH scale, with no issues AS LONG AS THEY ARE GAS CHECKED and LUBED. I have had ZERO luck with PB cast rounds in any diameter.

                        In my 458 SOCOM, I've shot .458 (17bh), .459 (12bh and Lyman #2), and .460 (7bh-ish), in ranges from 300gr to 420gr... and all of them seem to do pretty well around 1500-1600 FPS. The heavier ones definatly seemed to stabilize better than the lighter ones at those velocities... but pulling the lighter rounds down to around 1300FPS got them pretty consistent.

                        Also, shooting cast "Boolits" is MUCH cheaper than shooting Jwords. Definatly something to consider when playing with these stupid things...lol


                        Edit: Sorry... I have nothing useful to add to the OP topic of barrels... as I do not own a .50AE...er .50 Beo :)
                        Last edited by TonyM; 12-20-2010, 00:23.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks to those that replied to the question about the barrels. I have called Satern and they are getting a 16 imho barrel for me. They have been great to work with. I should have all of my funds together for that barrel in about 6 weeks. I think that it will be with the wait. I would rather have a high quality barrel and do the wulf right he first time.

                          Don't mind the hijacking of the thread as I want to shoot cast bullets through it as well.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Griffin99 View Post
                            Thanks to those that replied to the question about the barrels. I have called Satern and they are getting a 16 imho barrel for me. They have been great to work with. I should have all of my funds together for that barrel in about 6 weeks. I think that it will be with the wait. I would rather have a high quality barrel and do the wulf right he first time.

                            Don't mind the hijacking of the thread as I want to shoot cast bullets through it as well.
                            I have been trying to get ahold of the folks at Satern for a few months now (email and phone) and haven't heard a peep. How on earth did you get in touch with them?

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                            • #15
                              If they are not interested in what you want . You will never hear from them
                              Last edited by lloydx2; 01-02-2011, 20:23.

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